Squiggly Profession Conversations: Jim MacLeod



00:00:00: Introduction
00:03:43: A day within the lifetime of a Rear Admiral
Squiggling inside the similar organisation
Benefit from mentorship
00:10:59: Jim’s three guidelines
Coping with imposter syndrome
A sideways squiggle is nearly as good as a promotion
How ego and worry can maintain you again
Perceive your strengths and weaknesses
Jim’s profession recommendation
Closing ideas

Helen Tupper: Hello, I am Helen, and that is the Squiggly Careers podcast, the place every week Sarah and I come collectively to share with you some insights and concepts that will help you along with your Squiggly Profession, to help you within the successes and navigate by means of the knotty moments.  This week is Nationwide Careers Week within the UK, and it has impressed us to have 4 very totally different Squiggly Profession Conversations, to present you a window into another person’s world of labor, and encourage you concerning the totally different instructions that your Squiggly Profession can take you in.

Our conversations this week embody Sarah’s dialogue with Eric Sim, whose profession story is stuffed with resilience and bravado and prospects and pivots; BBC journalist, Simon Mundie, who talked to me about development and methods to create and never look forward to profession alternatives; Sarah’s dialog with Steph Douglas, who’s the Founding father of Do not Purchase Her Flowers.  We’re linked and have adopted Steph on Instagram, and he or she talks to Sarah concerning the realities of operating your individual enterprise, so some nice insights into entrepreneurship there; and at the moment’s dialog, which is myself speaking to Jim MacLeod, a Royal Navy Rear Admiral, who shares some fascinating insights on methods to squiggle and keep in an organisation.  I speak to him about his 33-year-long profession within the Navy, and all of the totally different and numerous issues that he has executed, and what he is learnt about methods to develop in numerous instructions in a single organisation.

So, I hope you are taking so much out of this dialog.  Please do tell us the way you discovered this collection and whether or not you need us to do extra Squiggly Profession Conversations.  You’ll be able to at all times electronic mail us.  We’re helen&sarah@squigglycareers.com.

Jim, welcome to the Squiggly Careers podcast.

Jim MacLeod: Thanks.

Helen Tupper: I really feel like, from a dinner on the finish of final 12 months, I lastly bought you right into a dialog speaking about your profession!

Jim MacLeod: Sure, it is taken some time, we have been busy.

Helen Tupper: Sure, we’ve been busy, and it may be the final time you say sure at a dinner once more when somebody randomly, possibly barely tipsily, asks you to return on a podcast!

Jim MacLeod: By no means, I am delighted to be right here, Helen, thanks.

Helen Tupper: So, the rationale once we met, I used to be so, “Wow, what an incredible profession”, is as a result of you’re a Rear Admiral within the Royal Navy, which I do not assume I’ve ever spoken to a Rear Admiral earlier than, so it is a very distinct and spectacular profession; and after I dived in a bit deeper into what bought you there, I turned much more fascinated.

So, it is a 33-year-long profession within the Royal Navy, that has taken you from in the beginning, transitioning from engineering to working in defence coverage, from engaged on technique within the Center East to Strategic HR for the entire of the Navy, after which driving enhancements in gender variety to managing the defence relationship with the Royal Household.  It’s a numerous, totally different and distinct profession that has all occurred in a single place, within the Royal Navy.

Jim MacLeod: Yeah, that is proper, and I am on the finish of my 33-year profession now, and if I look again on the 15-, 16-year-old boy who was strolling down Wellington Avenue in Leeds going into the Royal Navy Careers’ workplace, and I stated to him, “That is what you are going to do for the following 33 years”, I would not imagine myself, and searching again at what have been some fabulous alternatives and experiences that I’ve loved inside that profession.

I used to be doing a bit little bit of taking a look at a few of your work, Helen, after we met at that dinner, and really a lot having fun with your descriptions of a Squiggly Profession, and completely, trying again, I feel that is a very nice description for a way my profession’s panned out, and also you coated the vary of jobs I’ve executed.

Helen Tupper: And by way of that vary, within the job that you just do now, as a result of I do not assume it’s one that may really feel acquainted to the overwhelming majority of individuals listening to this podcast, me included, what’s a median day within the lifetime of a Rear Admiral within the Royal Navy?

Jim MacLeod: Nicely, the simple reply is, there is no such thing as a common day, and it relies upon which Rear Admiral you speak to.  However for me, on this last job that I have been in, I’ve been in Strategic HR for the army, for all of the Navy, the Air Pressure and the Military, so I have been chargeable for HR coverage for round 180,000 servicewomen, servicemen, reserves and regulars, taking a look at all parts from recruitment, retention, schooling, resettlement abilities and the way are we trying on the workforce for the long run.  The technical time period is Strategic Workforce Planning, however actually taking a look at, have we bought the suitable abilities coming by means of into the organisation to proceed to ship in what I imagine is a first-class army, and proceed to guard the nation’s pursuits.

So, that is sort of what my total job is.  There isn’t any common day, and that is what makes it fascinating and enjoyable.

Helen Tupper: I feel one of many causes that I used to be so excited once we spoke, is likely one of the issues that Sarah and I are obsessed with helps folks to squiggle and keep in an organisation.  And one of many myths that generally folks have when they give thought to Squiggly Careers, is that Squiggly Careers means shifting from organisation to organisation, and never sticking with one factor.  For some folks, Squiggly may imply that; it’s totally excessive.  I would imply a profession stuffed with fixed change that you’re creating for your self by shifting round totally different organisations.

It is not that that’s unhealthy, however we do not assume that that is the vast majority of what folks’s expertise of what a Squiggly Profession can be; and that really, once we take into consideration Squiggly Careers, it is how can I squiggle inside the organisation that I am in?  You’ll be able to usually create much more alternative, since you’ve bought these relationships and you have that data, and you’ll stretch a few of these abilities that you have within the totally different instructions in fairly a protected approach.

So, I needed to get a little bit of perception out of your expertise of, what has helped you to squiggle and keep inside the Royal Navy?

Jim MacLeod: I feel a variety of issues.  One is, it is a comparatively giant organisation, so there are many alternatives.  I feel we’re an organisation that values our folks, and subsequently we put money into our folks and we see it is necessary to present folks alternatives to broaden, as a result of they’re going to proceed studying and growing themselves and bringing these abilities again.  And as a pacesetter, I feel that is actually necessary inside my very own space.

I used to be accountable, as a Director for Strategic HR, and I had a comparatively giant group, and I at all times inspired folks to advertise out or transfer out into different areas of defence, as a result of they’d broaden, they’d be taught extra after which, in the event that they’d loved working with me and the group they had been in, they’d come again with that have.  So, from an organisational perspective, Squiggly Careers are a very good funding in your workers; it helps them develop and convey these abilities to bear.

From a person perspective, I discovered that what Squiggly Careers have allowed me to do is to increase my abilities, and the issues that I take pleasure in doing, proceed to do them in numerous environments and proceed to remain challenged.  And I at all times mirror on the story of problem and the video video games analogy.  We have all performed these little video video games on our telephones and these apps, and if it is too simple, you cease doing it, you get bored; if it is too laborious, you cease doing it; but when it is simply difficult sufficient, you retain doing it without end and ever.

I feel, if you will get a profession that is regularly difficult you, you progress on, there is a step, you be taught and also you assume, “Oh my God, I did not assume I might ever be capable to do this.  Look, I am now doing it very well”, I feel that is so rewarding and so motivating, and organisations that may faucet into that motivation of people, I feel, will proceed to develop the perfect folks to work with them.

Helen Tupper: And, by way of the alternatives that you have had, what number of of these alternatives have offered themselves to you, so somebody’s gone, “Here is an excellent transfer for you on this new space”; and what number of have you ever proactively gone out and explored and located for your self?

Jim MacLeod: So, I’ve at all times had this view that if you happen to chase a specific job, you are more likely to find yourself dissatisfied, as a result of if you happen to’re chasing a specific cut-off date, you will have a view of what that cut-off date goes to be like, and it’d fairly not be what you need, otherwise you won’t do it.  I’ve at all times had this view that I do know what I take pleasure in doing, and subsequently I attempt to discover roles and jobs which can be going to permit me to do issues I take pleasure in.

For me, I take pleasure in working with folks.  Early on in my profession, I loved working with expertise and engineering.  And I loved making a distinction and difficult.  So, what I did, each time I used to be speaking to my profession managers, or taking a look at roles sooner or later, I seemed on the varieties of issues which might problem me, the varieties of issues that might play to my strengths, after which make it clear that these had been the types of issues that I needed to do.  The Navy and the army have been excellent in giving me a lot of totally different alternatives, however I very a lot, I feel, made my very own luck in explaining to folks the issues that I take pleasure in doing are as I mentioned with you.

The opposite factor that I discovered actually necessary was having these conversations with my mentors, and I am unable to stress sufficient the significance of chatting with individuals who’ve been by means of the system and mentorship, as a result of they actually helped me to grasp what I may do sooner or later.  There is no approach you’ll have seen the 28-year-old Lieutenant MacLeod, who’d simply left a warship, and stated to him, “You may be chargeable for the Center East defence coverage through the Arab Spring”, there is not any approach I’d ever have believed that.  I’d have thought, “I could not do this, no approach can I do this”.

However what folks did that I labored for, they regularly stretched me and stated, “Have you considered the next?  Listed here are some alternatives, we expect you would be good at this”.  So, I went alongside and moved into new jobs with that full trepidation of, “Oh my God, I’ll get discovered, I do not know what’s taking place.  I’ve simply left this actually snug house the place everyone trusts me, and I’ve simply moved into one thing new.  Oh my God, I’ll get discovered”.

What I realized in my profession was nearly everyone seems like that and really, everyone simply pretends they do not, which jogs my memory of my three guidelines; I’ve bought to inform you about my three guidelines in a minute.  And, what I learnt as I went by means of my profession was really, that is regular to really feel like this, and even to the purpose now, when folks be part of and work for me, I say to them, “If after three months, you continue to do not actually really feel — don’t fret about it.  If after six months, you continue to really feel like that, possibly we have got an issue and we’d want to have a look at it, however feeling such as you’re out of your depth in the beginning is par for the course, and you’ll in a short time get your toes, transfer ahead and you will look again and you will assume, ‘Oh my God, look what I’ve executed, look what I’ve achieved'”.

I point out my three guidelines, as a result of I feel these are actually necessary, and I learnt these as an engineer.  My three guidelines are, “If one thing’s damaged, what was the very last thing you probably did to it, as a result of that is most likely what broke it?”, and that applies to not simply engineering, however any social techniques and issues like that.  My second rule is, “If I am unable to clarify one thing to any individual in three minutes in order that they perceive it, I do not perceive it nicely sufficient”, and that features explaining why we have to do issues, why issues are taking place, and that rule has labored very well for me.

My third rule, and possibly a very powerful is, “No person actually is aware of what is going on on on a regular basis, so simply sound assured and crack on”, and it really works wonders.  So, I learnt these as an engineer, and so they’ve labored wonders for me all through my profession.

Helen Tupper: It is a bit like a profession masterclass in our Squiggly abilities.  So, we’ve these 5 abilities that we expect are most useful for most individuals to reach a Squiggly Profession, no matter success means to folks.  The primary two are values and strengths, so while you had been speaking about shifting round in your profession and also you stated, “I had a readability on what I loved and what I used to be good at”, that is values and strengths.  The following one is throughout confidence, so I might love to return again to that a bit bit, the truth that you recognise you had imposter syndrome, or what we name “a confidence gremlin”, and also you discovered a method to cage it so it did not maintain you again, and I might love to return again to that, as a result of I feel it prevents folks from doing a little Squiggly strikes.

Then you definitely talked concerning the mentors, and our fourth Squiggly ability is round community, so ensuring that you’ve the group round your profession.  After which we discuss future and future prospects, and being open to the instructions that you might develop in, and I really feel like your profession is such an excellent description of how all these issues have come to bear, to take you to the place you are actually and offer you all of that numerous expertise alongside the way in which.

Jim MacLeod: Possibly I may write a e book on it, solely I feel somebody’s already closed the market on me!

Helen Tupper: Jim’s view on the Squiggly Profession!  I prefer it, you do it, you might positively do this.  It may very well be a compendium to the Squiggly Profession!

Let’s discuss confidence, as a result of imposter syndrome, you talked about it that it got here up with virtually each transfer, and I feel for lots of people, it could forestall them taking the motion, as a result of they’d say, “That is too difficult [or] I am unable to do that, as a result of I’ve not executed it earlier than”, and it sounds such as you acknowledged that you just had that worry, however you had been in a position to transfer by means of it, and in addition assist different folks with it.  Is there something virtually, different than simply to struggle the worry and do it anyway, is there something that is virtually helped you to maneuver ahead while you may need that imposter syndrome in your profession?

Jim MacLeod: Yeah, I feel there may be.  I nonetheless get it, I handle it a lot better now.  However what I do is I take into consideration occasions in my profession after I’ve been profitable, significantly occasions after I’ve been acknowledged as profitable by different folks, and at occasions after I was stunned or happy by that.  I recall, “I feel I can do not forget that”, I may even bear in mind the sensation the way it felt when any individual recognised that I might executed nicely.  And I refer again to that in my head.  I feel, “You’ve got been right here earlier than, you have executed this and it went nicely”.

So, I sort of have these moments in my profession, clearly folks in the beginning of their profession, everytime you look again in life, there are issues while you assume, “Oh my God, I did that!” and simply focusing again on, “Oh my God, I did that!” you’ll be able to inform by the emotion in my voice, it is an emotional response, it isn’t an analytical response.  So, that is actually necessary to me.

The opposite factor that I’ve discovered is, and I do that in conferences, I stroll out of a gathering and I overanalyse myself and I feel, “Oh my God, I stated one thing actually silly there”.  And somewhat than ruminating on it and going time and again it in my head, I feel, “Nicely, I most likely stated ten issues, and I most likely stated six issues that had been common, and I most likely stated just a few issues that folks went, ‘That is actually good’, and I most likely stated one or two issues that folks thought maybe wasn’t fairly proper”.  However on stability, I am going to have walked out of there saying extra good than not, so I’d have added worth, and different folks may have discounted the issues I stated that I assumed had been unhealthy.  So, I sort of again myself in that I would not be the place I’m if I did not typically make the suitable selections, so I’ve the boldness that I most likely do the suitable factor.

The opposite factor that I feel is actually necessary is, we hardly ever ever decide that is 180 levels mistaken.  And the worst factor we will do shouldn’t be make selections.  So, I feel making a choice, however then being ready to go, “I did not get that fairly proper”, and having that potential, that humility, significantly the chief; however having that humility to go, “I may have executed {that a} bit higher, however we’re nonetheless shifting the suitable approach.  I am going to right what we’re doing and transfer ahead”.

So, I feel my three instruments are: bear in mind I have been right here earlier than and I’ve succeeded; do not forget that I would not be right here if I did not typically make the suitable selections, so will probably be tremendous; after which on the third piece, I simply belief in myself and I am ready to say, “That wasn’t fairly proper”, and subsequently folks choose me as being Jim and human and fallible, and subsequently I have not arrange a false pretence that I’ll be proper on a regular basis, they really feel far more empowered, and as an organisation or as a group, we will transfer ahead.  So, I feel these are most likely my three suggestions for a way I handled that confidence gremlin.

Helen Tupper: We frequently discuss imaginative and prescient boards, you already know, while you’re occupied with the place you wish to go sooner or later, however you’ll be able to’t fairly get particular about it, create a imaginative and prescient board and it offers you that sense of route.  However in our new e book, You Coach You, we’ve a chapter on self-belief, and in there, there’s an train round making a delight postcard, so mainly writing to your self about one thing that you’ve executed nicely, and bringing in all of that richness.  As a result of, you already know while you stated, “You’ll be able to hear it in my voice”, and remembering who you had been working with and what you had been doing and the way it felt like, to floor your self in that second, somewhat than let your gremlin cease you from shifting ahead.  I feel it is a actually highly effective train to do.

Jim MacLeod: I feel so.  And I feel additionally, I had some excellent recommendation from any individual, possibly 20 years in the past now, that when that little gremlin — and I at all times have a picture of it sat on my shoulder going, “Jim, you are an fool, you’ll be able to’t do this”.  And what this particular person advised me actually correctly was to, in my head, take the time to say, “Thanks, Mr Gremlin, I acknowledge your level, however I am fairly proud of the place I am going”, however to consciously assume that by means of, and in order that I’ve acknowledged it however moved on and I do not ignore it.  As a result of, I feel if you happen to ignore it, it is at all times there, and I virtually flip my head and say, “Thanks very a lot for pointing this out, and I acknowledge your level, however I am fairly snug, thanks”.  I do not know, possibly that is simply me, however I discover that works.

Helen Tupper: It is not simply you.  Susan Kane has written a superb e book on emotional agility, and he or she talks about utilizing your doubts as information, and you’ll’t do this except you acknowledge them like, “What is that this voice and what’s it saying?  The place’s it coming from?”  You must be taught to take heed to it; not be taught to let it lead you, however be taught to take heed to it.  I feel it’s a ability, however some folks, you get in denial about it or defensive, otherwise you attempt to simply ignore it, but it surely’s nonetheless simply sat there.  So, positively not simply you.

One of many different issues that I see holding folks’s Squiggly Profession alternatives again after they’re in an organisation, so limits their alternative to squiggle and keep, is after they default to considering that development should be promotion.  So, “I’ve bought this filter in my thoughts that the one good method to progress is to get promoted.  I am unable to see a promotion on this organisation, subsequently I’ve to depart”.  What has your expertise been by way of your development; has each transfer been upwards, or have they been in numerous instructions, as a result of it is fairly hierarchical, I think about, the Navy?

Jim MacLeod: Yeah.  The army may be very hierarchical for good causes.  No, I might like to say I bought promoted out of each rank on the earliest alternative and have by no means spent a couple of job in each rank, however that is not the case.

Helen Tupper: Would you like to say that, or really do you assume your profession would not as been as wealthy?

Jim MacLeod: Yeah, I do.  I inform people who find themselves off to command warships, you do this in your 30s, or folks within the Military command of their regiments or their squadrons and wings within the Air Pressure, and I inform them to take pleasure in it.  Do not rush by means of this a part of your profession the place you are working actually carefully with the servicewomen and servicemen who’re on the market, as a result of our individuals are completely wonderful.

At any time when I am in senior management now, and I spend a variety of time within the Ministry of Defence, I be sure that I get out and meet our folks, as a result of they’re superior and so they do essentially the most unimaginable issues, and sometimes in tough situations.  You’ll be able to at all times catch up in a while, however you’ll by no means be capable to exchange that have.  And I feel that performs to your level on Squiggly Careers.

I feel we connect an excessive amount of to promotion; for some folks, that is most likely how they’re.  For me, I connect my worth system to, “Am I doing a great job?  How do I do know I am doing a great job?  As a result of individuals are telling me”.  It is my kryptonite, but in addition one in every of my strengths, I care about what folks assume.  And to maneuver from one job to a different that is not promotion gives alternatives to do one thing totally different, to do one thing new, to be taught abilities that you just may want in a while.

I feel for Squiggly Careers, that is actually necessary.  You get in that breadth of abilities throughout a spread of various areas.  For me, I jumped from engineering, engineering technical help, throughout into some high-consequence, low-frequency security stuff, fairly core engineering.  I then discovered myself working in defence coverage, taking a look at what functionality do we want for the long run, doing state of affairs modelling; after which, moved throughout from there, ended up working with the Military in Iraq with the People in Baghdad.  From there, again to sea, after which out right into a Center East coverage job, all of which relied on the core abilities that I delivered to the social gathering which was, I like to grasp why we’re doing issues, what’s the issue we’re making an attempt to repair.  So, all of these had been constructing on my core skillset, however they had been utilizing them in numerous methods.

You’ll be able to’t get a lot additional aside than Center East politics and high-consequence security circumstances.  I imply, they’re apples and seesaws.  However the skillsets I used was that questioning of, “What’s the issue we’re making an attempt to repair?  What are the views of everyone round there?  What’s stopping us from getting there?”  However one of many issues that I actually realized was, everybody will inform you why issues cannot occur; however if you happen to flip that and say, “Okay, inform me what I have to do to make it occur”, and also you shift an organisation’s considering and tradition.

So, the abilities that I learnt as an engineer and my three guidelines, you already know, what broke it; why is it not working; are you able to clarify it to me and sound assured, and my abilities that I might learnt in my early a part of my profession, utilized simply as nicely in all these totally different jobs.  And what they did was gave me big quantities of breadth that I may then use in a while.

So, now I am director degree, Rear Admiral, I take advantage of these abilities that I picked up by working with Center-Jap international locations and among the wonderful issues they taught me, working with the well being and security executives, working with folks on ships, from all these totally different jobs, however all of them reinforce the core skillset that’s Jim MacLeod, and made me who I’m.  So, if I might have stayed in engineering and bounced by means of the system, I do not know if I’d have even bought to be Rear Admiral.  I may need sealed unsure someplace, as a result of I simply could not apply my abilities to the breadth of challenges that you just get at extra senior positions.  I’ve most likely gone fully off-piste there!

Helen Tupper: No, by no means.  For us, it is all about that transferability of your skills, somewhat than considering the way you switch one title to a different, as a result of that will get far more restricted.  It does make me assume although, one of many issues that will get in the way in which of creating a few of these braver, extra totally different strikes, apart from confidence, which we touched on, is possibly a little bit of ego like, “Is a sideways transfer a profitable transfer?” and in addition possibly a bit little bit of worry, like comparability, “However my friends appear to be getting promoted, or shifting quicker ahead of their profession than I’m”.  So, how have you ever unhooked your self from both ego getting in your approach, or that sort of worry of lacking out or being slower, that profession comparability holding you again?

Jim MacLeod: I feel that is a very truthful query, Helen, as a result of it’s totally simple, and I may critique myself, to say, “You’d say that, would not you, Jim, as a result of you have to be Rear Admiral”.  I feel we do are likely to view ourselves on how we’re doing relative to our friends and that promotion.  I feel that is false, and I feel we overplay that, as a result of after I look again, I do not have a look at the deadlines after I was promoted, I have a look at the roles that I did and the affect that I had.

So, I do not evaluate my profession by means of a lens of promotion and development; I view it by means of, “I really feel like I did a very good job there, I really feel like I made an actual affect, that issues are higher as a result of I did that job, no matter what the rank was.  However you are proper, I feel it’s laborious.  And I say this to folks within the army, “It is not a rush to the highest”.  Folks will get to the purpose that they’ll get to.  I’ve met individuals who’ve been promoted a bit later, however they’re higher for it.

Helen Tupper: Development stress, I feel, implies that folks begin to compete and make selections that are not essentially the suitable selections for them; whereas, while you take the time to get the perception that you have talked about, like your three guidelines, if solely everyone had their three guidelines, think about if everyone had that readability that you just talked about, about, “That is what I do nicely, let’s take into consideration how I can apply it”, after which explored and bought inquisitive about their profession, about the place it may take them to.

Which may not imply there’s a chance at the moment, however when that chance is there, it is more likely to be a job that you’ll take pleasure in and have an effect in, and that is what then creates the following one.  So, I feel it is a actually necessary factor.  It is not at all times on the spot, but it surely’s higher due to it.

Helen Tupper: I feel you are proper, and one of many issues I missed saying is, do jobs that you just assume you are going to take pleasure in, as a result of if you happen to take pleasure in, you will do nicely in it; and if you happen to do nicely in it, you will take pleasure in it.  However you will additionally get seen and you will transfer by means of the system.  I counsel folks on a regular basis who come and inform me, “I wish to do this job”.  You do not, as a result of once we began with that, it won’t be the suitable factor for you.  What’s it you are good at, what’s it you take pleasure in?  Again it, go and do extra of that.  You may do nicely, and if you happen to do nicely, you will progress, as a result of alternatives will open for you that you have not seen earlier than; whereas, if you happen to’re tied to this linear, your mind will not see these alternatives, folks will not see you for the breadth that you just deliver, so that you self-limit if you happen to do this.

Helen Tupper: We discuss how your strengths could be self-fulfilling in a Squiggly Profession, like if you happen to work out what offers you power and what you wish to be identified for, present up with that as a lot as potential, and other people will match to you with extra issues that want that factor that you just wish to be identified for, and also you get into this very optimistic Squiggly cycle in your profession.

Jim MacLeod: I could not agree extra, and it is that, perceive the place your strengths are and areas the place you are not as sturdy.  Be sure your areas the place you are not as sturdy aren’t going to carry you again, however then do not make investments an excessive amount of time in them, since you’re not sturdy in them, you most likely do not take pleasure in them, you are going to make investments time in them, simply make certain they do not maintain you again.  Put all that power into issues that you just actually like, since you’ll massively enhance your potential.  And as you say, folks will recognise that, and other people will then match you and open alternatives for you that you just by no means even thought.

Within the Center East job I preserve referring to, I labored for one more particular person in a job earlier than, and he’d seen what I introduced and thought, “Truly, Jim may be fairly good on this job.  It is not the place we’d usually put somebody along with his skillset, however I’ve seen how he operates”.  So, he introduced me in and it was nice, however that was about issues that I might executed 5 years earlier than had an affect sooner or later.

I feel that is one of many issues I’ve learnt in my profession, is issues I did 10, 15 years in the past, the way in which I used to be 10, 15 years in the past, nonetheless ripples by means of at the moment.  And issues that I did, relationships I constructed, reputations that I’ve constructed, nonetheless ripple on.  And I really like that phrase, “You’re the story folks inform about you”, and that is actually necessary to me.  I do know who I wish to be, I do know I am most likely not that individual, however I do need the tales that folks inform about me for me to have a look at them and go, “Truly, I might be fairly happy, I might be fairly completely satisfied for my youngsters to listen to these tales.  Daddy did all proper”.

So, in my Squiggly Profession has been — it has been a Squiggly Profession, it isn’t been a collection of strains which can be linear, it isn’t been a collection of steps that aren’t associated, it has been a journey by means of these wonderful experiences, working in what I feel is the perfect army on the earth, with among the finest those who you might hope to work with, and doing issues that matter.

Helen Tupper: So, as a last piece of recommendation to somebody that is listening now, I am imaging that somebody’s listening going, “Wow, what an interesting profession, and executed some wonderful issues and that is actually inspirational.  However I work in an organisation, I wish to transfer round and I wish to develop in numerous instructions, but it surely appears a bit siloed.  I am undecided, the place do I get began?  Do I’m going construct some relationships; do I’m going mirror on my strengths?”  What would you say to that one that’s listening now, impressed by your story, however considering, “The place do I get began in my organisation?”

Jim MacLeod: I can solely mirror on my expertise, and a few issues that might soar to thoughts had been, we talked about it, again your strengths and belief your self.  Are you aware what, one of many issues that I’ve stated to those who work for me is, while you’re in conferences or while you’re doing issues, think about you are one or two ranks larger and what would you then do, and do it.  I am not going to provide the pay for that rank, however do it.  You are unlikely to do something badly mistaken, and also you may do one thing that is actually intelligent that nobody thought of.

So, a few of that’s about backing your self, do not self-limit.  And I am unable to stress the significance sufficient of mentoring and spending a while simply to search out folks within the organisation who assume such as you, and who you’ll be able to speak to, as a result of they could have alternatives that you’re fully unaware of.  Once they get to know you, and so they go, “Oh, I used to be chatting with Jim.  He is bought some whacky concepts about that.  Possibly I am going to stick him in entrance of the X, see what he is bought to say”, and hastily a door opens that you just by no means thought was going to open, and any individual says, “We have this undertaking that we have to run.  Jim, can you could have a go at it?”

I feel these could be the 2 issues: again your self; and spend a while speaking to folks.

Helen Tupper: I am an enormous fan of alliteration, as a result of I feel it sticks.  So, my three Ss from which can be: make certain your strengths stand out; do not self-limit; after which, get the help that you just want.  That’s what I am going to remove from these bits of recommendation, so thanks very a lot for that.  And thanks very a lot for approaching the podcast.

I used to be considering, what’s the story that I’ll inform about Jim MacLeod; to that final query that you just answered, what’s going to I inform to folks from my dialog with you?  And I’ll say somebody who is smart, humble, supportive and galvanizing.  So, I do not know in the event that they’re the tales that you just wish to hear about your self, however they’re those that I can be sharing in your behalf.

Jim MacLeod: That is actually form, I am actually touched by that, thanks very a lot, Helen.

Helen Tupper: Nicely, thanks very a lot, and good luck with all that is going to occur subsequent and now in your Squiggly Profession as nicely.

Jim MacLeod: Sure, I’ve bought a bit squiggle arising as I look to, the place do I’m going subsequent after my profession within the army.

Helen Tupper: Huge query, sensible query, cannot wait to see!  Thanks very a lot on your time.

Jim MacLeod: Thanks, Helen, communicate to you quickly.

Helen Tupper: Thanks a lot for listening to at the moment’s podcast.  In case you are impressed to discover how you might develop in numerous instructions, take a look on the authorities’s Expertise for Life web site, the place there are a great deal of free programs and studying.  The hyperlink to get there may be simply gov.uk/skillsforlife, and we’ll put it within the present notes as nicely.  There’s a lot there, whether or not you wish to be taught extra concerning the fundamentals of coding, or about inexperienced abilities, or tech, there’s a lot there.

They’re all run by specialists in every space, and plenty of them are distant programs too, so you are able to do them when it really works for you, and that is only a profit for everybody with studying, is not it?  However thanks very a lot for listening at the moment, and if you would like to get in contact, you have bought any suggestions, it is simply helen&sarah@squigglycareers.com, and we at all times recognize score, reviewing, subscribing the podcast, as a result of it helps us to assist extra folks with their Squiggly Profession.



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